> Most can't tell their manager that it will take 2 weeks to parse a CSV because the source data is shit and they have too many other things they are working on. So they stay an extra 6 hours in the office and get called a rock-star until the day that they opt to go to their child's school play instead.
Ugh! For real! I had this happen to me recently. I have trouble telling people "No", and pushy PMs who also happen to be my friends means that I often bite off more than I can chew, and have to either "be a rockstar" (which you start to realize isn't such a compliment), or deliver late / fail to deliver.
So I just started being a dick about it, and it works for me. If I say no too politely, it's really easy to convince me to change to a yes. My turning point was when discussing a project that was much more complex than management assumed it would be (I'm compelled to link the relevant xkcd [0]), and I already felt overwhelmed on my current projects.
The discussion was something like "Ok, how about by this date? What about by this date? What if we dropped these features?", I thought for a moment and responded "Ok, look. I can promise you any date you want, and we can shake hands and leave this meeting. But I'm telling you the reality is I can't do it, and it won't be done. If you'd like to take some of my other projects and move them into the will not be done category, we can talk. I'm only saying this because I don't want to agree to a deadline and then be constantly thinking 'Oh well, that's the date I'm getting fired.'"
I'm very lucky that everyone here is really nice, and realized how stressed I must have been to react like that. So we've reprioritized some things and are beginning to outsource some of my more menial tasks that took up a lot of time.
Didn't really intend for that story to have a point, just venting something my non-dev friends don't relate to. I guess the point could be that the problem isn't just caused by bad managers, or bad dev estimates, or bad process, it's a little bit of everything, and the ratios are different for every company or person.
Personal experience here - everything got better when I really started being a dick. I flat out tell them that they can't change reality and things take time; and I will not work extra hours or during the weekend to keep promises I didn't make. I had the same feeling of "when are they going to fire me" but actually it looks I am getting much more respect.
Exactly the same here. I think it's not really "being a dick", but just a dissonance between how the different types of people operate. I'm usually so passive that any sort "No, I want my free time after work" feels rude, and I'm probably not very good at being assertive and nice at the same time yet, haha.
The other developers always seemed to get the message that when I said "Maybe... I'm not sure if I have the time for it... I can see...", I really meant "No, but please don't make me say no.", while anyone else hears it as "Cool, he said he would see if he has the time for it" and then follow up with me a few days later "Did you make time for that project?"
I'm making an effort to flat out say "No" more often, but it's nice that other people are also beginning to realize that I only mean "Yes" when I actually use the word "yes".
That is the worst conversation. You have to admit you can't do it, and you have to force them to evaluate what is worth what.
Of course, part of that evaluation is you. Almost unavoidable.
They have to admit you are not an infinite resource and that they are asking for more than is realistic.
The very worst is by the time this all happens, they have most likely already pre agreed to just get it done, or they themselves were told to just do it.
> Most can't tell their manager that it will take 2 weeks to parse a CSV because the source data is shit and they have too many other things they are working on. So they stay an extra 6 hours in the office and get called a rock-star until the day that they opt to go to their child's school play instead.
Ugh! For real! I had this happen to me recently. I have trouble telling people "No", and pushy PMs who also happen to be my friends means that I often bite off more than I can chew, and have to either "be a rockstar" (which you start to realize isn't such a compliment), or deliver late / fail to deliver.
So I just started being a dick about it, and it works for me. If I say no too politely, it's really easy to convince me to change to a yes. My turning point was when discussing a project that was much more complex than management assumed it would be (I'm compelled to link the relevant xkcd [0]), and I already felt overwhelmed on my current projects.
The discussion was something like "Ok, how about by this date? What about by this date? What if we dropped these features?", I thought for a moment and responded "Ok, look. I can promise you any date you want, and we can shake hands and leave this meeting. But I'm telling you the reality is I can't do it, and it won't be done. If you'd like to take some of my other projects and move them into the will not be done category, we can talk. I'm only saying this because I don't want to agree to a deadline and then be constantly thinking 'Oh well, that's the date I'm getting fired.'"
I'm very lucky that everyone here is really nice, and realized how stressed I must have been to react like that. So we've reprioritized some things and are beginning to outsource some of my more menial tasks that took up a lot of time.
Didn't really intend for that story to have a point, just venting something my non-dev friends don't relate to. I guess the point could be that the problem isn't just caused by bad managers, or bad dev estimates, or bad process, it's a little bit of everything, and the ratios are different for every company or person.
[0] http://xkcd.com/1425/