Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

A long standing complaint of mine is that Cloud egress pricing severely limits the usefulness of compute. If I want to say process some visual effects on a large (1TB) ProRes video, I might spend $1 on the compute but $100 on the egress getting it back.

Unfortunately these changes don't really resolve that problem. "Standard" pricing is a paltry 20% less. That 1TB video egress still costs $80 and for that price I can rent a beefy server with a dedicated gigabit pipe for a month.

Why is "Cloud" bandwidth so damned expensive?

I'd love a "best effort" or "off peak" tier. I imagine Google's pipes are pretty empty when NA is asleep and my batch jobs aren't really going to care.



I was going to back up my photos to AWS Glacier before noticing that retrieval costs are multiple times the storage cost. I guess that is possibly OK for a backup but scared me into a physical alternative.

http://liangzan.net/aws-glacier-calculator/



Google Glacier, aka G2. I checked it out.

I like that I don't have to do calculus to understand how I'll be billed, or write my own retrieval software.


AWS has greatly simplified their Glacier pricing from the inscrutable transfer rate pricing to more common sense latency based pricing.

If you want your data back in < 5 minutes it's $0.03/GB, 3 - 5 hours, $0.01/GB, 5 - 12 hours, $0.0025/GB

AWS Glacier is cheaper per month than Google ColdStorage, but Google doesn't charge more for faster access to your data. So maybe you still need that Calculus to figure out which is a better deal for your data access pattern.


This does not include standard AWS egress pricing, which is something like $92/TB.


Right, and it doesn't include standard GCE egress pricing, which is something like $120/TB.

https://cloud.google.com/storage/pricing


Given TFA, it's probably more accurate to say $85/TB: https://cloud.google.com/network-tiers/pricing


Does that apply to storage egress? The storage pricing page lists only one network tier:

https://cloud.google.com/storage/pricing


Also nice to have sub-millisecond latency to first byte (versus multi-hour) and performance characteristics of normal GCS.. so you could run a rare MapReduce job on it just the same as regular GCS :)


99% availability seems not so "highly available" as they call it. It's just SLA, but that means if the service is down for 7 hours every month it still meets the availability SLA.

I know it may not matter that much for backup, I'm just wondering why would they set the bar so low - i.e. how do they organize the storage that they had to set it so low. I'm guessing MAIDs but I still don't get it.


That's for the coldline class. It's all the same GCS system and the top multi-region class has 99.95% availability

https://cloud.google.com/storage/docs/storage-classes#compar...


You just said that you were looking to Glacier as a "back up", so isn't that a good use case for Glacier?

One advantage of Amazon versus many other cloud backup providers is that (for a fee), they'll ship you your data on a hard disk if you need it in a hurry. Having cheap access to your 4TB of data may not be such a great deal if it takes 3 months to download it.


I'm fairly certain that the calculator you linked is incorrect. Unless I'm not understanding the Glacier pricing page, it should cost at most $1,240 to store 10TB for 30 days and then re-retrieve over the internet (even at the expedited retrieval rate).

The calculator shows the same setup (albeit with some of the rate information hidden) as costing $3,934.91

Backblaze B2 has no retrieval cost, so the same setup (storing 10TB for a month, then downloading) would cost only $250 (less than 1/3 of the cheapest Glacier option). Glacier is really only a viable option if you're sticking within the same region (where transfer is free) or you plan to literally never retrieve your backups.

Otherwise, B2 and other alternatives are much cheaper.


B2 has retrieval cost, the first 10GB each month is free.


I'm trying to use the nomenclature from the Glacier pricing page, where "transfer" is the verb to reference the cost per GB downloading the data from the remote provider. Glacier has an additional "retrieval" cost per GB that B2 and others do not (because they most likely have to physically retrieve a tape/HDD drive with your data on it).

https://aws.amazon.com/glacier/pricing/

https://www.backblaze.com/b2/cloud-storage-pricing.html


Sorry I don't get it. With B2 I have to pay if I want to say download 100GB of data in B2. From what I read, you say this isn't so. But the pricing page state otherwise


B2 has 2 charges: $/GB to store the data, and $/GB to download it (uploading to both is free)

Glacier has 3 charges: $/GB to store the data, $/GB to retrieve the data from "cold" storage, and $/GB to download it.

Retrieval !== downloading ("transfer"). Retrieval is an additional cost to downloading ("transfer").


As a suggestion, I use Glacier (with Arq) as a tertiary backup. If I have to go to that it means a lot of other things failed and I'll be willing to pay the price.


FWIW Amazon drive will store any number of photos (or anything it thinks is a photo -- I havent looked to see if it looks at the file name or checks to see if it's a valid jpeg/png) for free. So if you're really backing up your photos that's an option.


Yeah, I organized my backup around it. Then they decided that maybe they won't offer unlimited storage after all, and I better pay up or they are going to delete my files. Not falling for that again.


Doesn't Drive also forbid encryption, though?


I just checked the terms of service and they don't at all. They did ban rclone a while back but they said it was because of poor security in rclone itself, and haven't banned anything else.

Interestingly they say you can't use the storage for commercial purposes (whatever that means).


rclone was sharing an API key publicly. Not really a security flaw but understandable to block. Except that they shut down the ability for anyone to get API keys a while ago, so users can't get their own.


It's expensive to pull data out of their cloud partly because it makes switching providers or moving on-premise less appealing. It's a trap.


I wonder what that same 1 TB of data costs on the "open market" (or how it is even priced).

Say I'm a smallish ISP on the east coast and want to send 1 TB to another smallish ISP on the west coast. I probably have a contract with, I don't know, AT&T or whoever owns the cables (I'm from Europe so I have no clue, in Germany it would be Telekom). I'm guessing it would probably cost cents (and that would bring my data across the continent, not just out Google's door)? Definitely nowhere near $80.


In the open market you either get transit (you buy bandwidth from a carrier) or peer (you exchange traffic with a provider) with other networks.

There are also IXs, where you can peer with a lot of different networks in one place (DE-CIX is the biggest for example, located in Frankfurt).

Transit is billed 95th percentile, that means if you want to commit to 1 GbE on a 10 GbE uplink you pay the 1 GbE outright and can burst to the 10 GbE the uplink provides you. If you are over 1 GbE at the end of the month (95th) you will be billed the remaining mbps with a per mbps pricing.

Now, to answer your question, it basically works like that: You are present in NYC and you want to reach a customer on the west coast that uses Comcast. You would buy transit in your NYC facility from Comcast to get a direct path/way to them. They will take care of everything else. You don't have to lease/rent/buy the dark fibre (cables) from the east to the west coast, the provider (in this case comcast) is doing that already. If you don't buy transit from comcast, but instead form some cheap carrier (say cogent) they will do the same BUT not guarantee a specific bandwidth to comcast, you only would get 10 GbE to cogent, but you don't know if you can push the 10 GbE to comcast.

Transit providers also vary vastly on price. DTAG (Telekom) for example is ridiculously expensive (5x the prices of regular transit providers).

Let's say you want an decent pipe (transit) with 1 GbE commit on 10 GbE, you would pay something like $500-$600 for the 1 GbE commit and after that around $0,50 per every additional mbps. Additionally you need a router, preferably two (redundancy). Fiber cables, transceivers, etc. All those things are very expensive.

What you also notice is that you can't get transit with a TB billing, but most providers offer you per GB/TB billing. They need to commit to a certain amount and hope they calculated well in regards to their commitments and usage etc etc. Anyways, $80-120 per TB, the cloud providers are charging, is a bad joke.


1GbE over 1 month is about 330TB - is that right?


Yes, but it's basically impossible to do so with 95th percentile.


You don't buy bytes, you buy pipes. Typically, you buy say 1Gbit of transit and you can put as much or as little data through that pipe as you want.

You can get a gigabit pipe from Hurricane Electric or FDCServers for $400/month. In a month it can take 327TB of data, so the cost of 1TB is ~$1.20.


Curious - at what POP have you been quoted $400/month for a gigabit connection from HE?


Its not a quote, but a well known, long running cabinet special for 42u (aka a dedicated full rack) and 15 amps of power: https://he.net/special.pdf

Other datacenters can go cheaper if you need less rackspace and power, bandwidth is cheap!


Looks like this one is specifically for the Fremont 2 data center (though like you said, I imagine it's possible elsewhere or comparable). Thanks!


With enough competition a smallish ISP would pay as low as $0.25-$0.40 per mbps per month, which is on an order of $1 per TB. More expensive offers are like $1-$2 per mbps per month, which is still a single digit per TB.



Intentionally not linking to any of the companies I found with just a quick search at google (mislaid the PDF for carrier 2 carrier pricing of a major provider): 40E/month for 30TB traffic, 1G uplink (1G/s guaranteed), 2x500G SSD on a i7.


>Why is "Cloud" bandwidth so damned expensive?

This is one of the easiest ways for cloud providers to make money. I very often see people doing lots of advanced calculations for compute and choosing providers based on that without really thinking about bandwidth usage.

Famous last words, "Oh, it's a web service so bandwidth shouldn't be a big deal."


> Why is "Cloud" bandwidth so damned expensive?

Because compute is the loss leader to get you in the door. The bandwidth is where they make their money.


How do they lose money on CPU? Even if they were buying their CPUs at full retail (they aren't), break even would be less than 12 months.


Electricity is #1 expense.


The high bandwidth price is mostly to drive away seedboxes and porn sites. Huge discounts are likely available to big customers.


They could simply ban adult websites in their ToS, I doubt this is the reason. Also seed boxes are nowhere near useful if you still would pay $10 / TB and at the same time can get traffic for free at OVH or Online/Scaleway.

It's most likely vendor lock-in and people are dumb enough to pay for it.


The reason, is that bandwidth is a solid profit center for the cloud majors. Amazon initiated it, the rest are going along in cartel fashion, nobody wants to disrupt one of the lucrative angles by driving that profit center toward zero.

There's no other rational explanation why Azure or Google aren't hammering AWS on bandwidth cost as a competitive angle. They're basically conspiring in the industrial sense, no different than airlines that somehow magically agree to simultaneously raise prices or department stores that for decades all agreed not to discount the perfume etc. box section of their stores.


No need for conspiracy theories. When one market participant anchors a price at a high premium, you don't need to collude to know that undercutting them is a scorched earth strategy that causes both of you to lose. Part of this is because financial markets value your revenue more than market share, and undercutting bandwidth pricing hurts the former more than it helps the latter.


High bandwidth costs also make it more costly to move some of the data processing to companies which offer very cheap dedicated servers.

--

But it's not fair to say that price from Google is high just because some random hosting company gives you unmetered 500mbs for $99/month. As we have seen with many unlimited cloud storage offerings, some companies do unsustainable offers to attract customers. There are different strategies behind this. Some just count on that majority of customers won't use everything they could. Others know the price hike is inevitable, but believe customers will still stuck.


ToS means they have to police it. High prices police themselves.


>>> ... costs $80 and for that price I can rent a beefy server with a dedicated gigabit pipe for a month.

No you can't. One doesn't get dedicated gigabit for that price.


What? It is definitely possible to rent dedicated servers for that price with an un-metered gigabit pipe.

With 2 minutes of looking on webhostingtalk I found: http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1667849

Sure it's a no name provider, but you can get an Intel E3 for $80 with a "Guaranteed 700 Mb/s" pipe.

Edit: Clearly I misread the original quote given the OP response


Ah, sorry. I meant "beefy dedicated server with a gigabit pipe". It's the server that's dedicated, not the pipe.


That's true, even the cheapest carriers (cogent/he) charge around $0,15 per mbps and only if you commit to over 10 gbps or more.


"I imagine Google's pipes are pretty empty when NA is asleep and my batch jobs aren't really going to care."

You are aware that Google is a Global Company, with users all over the 'globe' yes? That not all "people" (or "users") are in: "NA"... right?


Save your outputs in the cloud. There is zero cost to access S3 object storage from EC2. Its only if you insist on pulling down 1TB files to your local workstation that you run into this. This seems like a self-inflicted problem.


The problem is often I need that data locally. With video editing in particular, I can't work with data that's not local and I can't run my editing software in the cloud because I'm not aware of any kind of remote workstation that offers colour management and whatnot.


Teradici does do this. Feel free to send me an email :).

Disclosure: I work on Google Cloud.


Are you aware of anything else that does this? I'm an individual so nothing with "Contact Sales" is useful to me.


I didn't say to Contact Sales, I said to contact me :).

Remote desktop with super accurate color instead of lots of dithering and compression is tricky. Are you on Windows or Linux?


Ah, I see.

The software I need (mostly Davinci Resolve) runs on all major platforms, including Linux, so I can be on whatever I need to be.


What about BackBlaze's B2? It's priced much lower.


Encrypt it then egress using a CDN.


It's not really cheaper: https://cloud.google.com/cdn/pricing

Cache egress is about the same price as the "Standard" tier but you have to pay the $0.04/GB cache fill price as well.

The only real potential discount is Direct Peering or Interconnect, which can get it down to $0.04/GB. That's still $40/TB though.


What is egress in this context? What is ProRes? Just curious


Wikipedia: "Apple ProRes is a lossy video compression format developed by Apple Inc. for use in post-production that supports up to 8K."

Egress and ingress are outgoing and incoming data, respectively.


if only there were some way to find detailed information to satisfy your curiosity using the Internet. some kind of "searching engine", perhaps.


I think part of the reason is people look at Linode/Vultr/DO and presume that 1/2TB for $5 is the market price (and then quote HE.Net/Cogent/Hibernia offering 10G to certain colos at $2-5kpm as backing proof), or dedicated servers with 10TB for $50pm etc... Linode/Vultr/DO mainly work off an average usage of 1%-2%, although at least they dont stop you deploying more boxes as you reach the limit, you can get clever and one would presume they dont invoke some TOS clause. I imagine GCP, AWS, and Azure bandwidth cost is closer to the truth at running a network that is resilent and can scale beyond 100G, the transit or costs of fiber is probably only a tiny fraction when pushing beyond 100G per region, vs your low end VPS provider, let's not forget the epic fail of Linode DDOS handling. I do agree though in comparison it sounds expensive.


No, I can assure you that Linode, OVH, DO are making money per G at 1TB per $5.

Cloud providers are expensive because they want vendor lock in. They want to make it artificially cheaper to use their own services (elasticsearch, etc) over something else. And they want a high switchover cost when you want to transfer all of your data to another provider.




Consider applying for YC's Fall 2026 batch! Applications are open till July 27.

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: